A forum for open discussion on communities and local government policy.

Sites for Gypsies and Travellers

The current supply of authorised site accommodation for the Gypsy and Traveller communities is known to be below what is needed. Currently one in four Gypsy and Traveller caravans are on unauthorised sites, a situation which creates problems for Gypsies, Travellers and the settled community.

The Government recognises that the key to reducing unauthorised camping is to increase the supply of authorised sites. We are currently considering the issue of new site design guidance which we hope will ensure that developers of new sites, or those upgrading existing sites, are able to benefit from experience of what works well in Gypsy and Traveller site design elsewhere.

Below is a list of the points that we hope that this discussion will help us to address. We anticipate that many people will want to contribute to this discussion, so in order to manage the site more efficiently we will only be able to display responses which address at least one of the questions below, and which follow the discussion rules of this site.

Please note this is not a discussion about who is entitled to site provision, or about where sites should be situated. Please make sure that your posts are constructive, and contribute towards the discussion. If you are prepared to discuss this with other members of your community who do not have access to the Internet please feel free to do so. All your views are welcome.

  • What makes a really good site to live on? What are the most important facilities needed to make a site truly effective and how should they be designed?
  • What is the ideal size for a site and its pitches and the best layout? Are more, smaller sites preferable to fewer large sites?
  • How could sites be best designed to make them safe places to live on and avoid problems such as antisocial behaviour?
  • How could sites be best designed to encourage greater integration with the settled community living nearby?
  • What kind of design improvements can best help improve the effectiveness of sites which already exist?

Final comment

Posted by hannah lynch on 08/12/2006 - 10:44

This discussion on Gypsy and Traveller site design is now closed. I would like to thank everyone that has contributed, and I hope that you found this to be as useful as I did.

We have recieved posts from a wide variety of contributors, including, I am pleased to say, some of the people that these sites are being designed for – Gypsies and Travellers. There seems to be an agreement that sites need to have good basic facilites and also that access to local services is important. Some contributors felt strongly that height barriers should not be present on sites. There also seems to be a preference for small sites over large ones.

There is likely to be further consultation on this guidance in the New Year, however, if you have any queries the Gypsy and Traveller Unit can be contacted at gypsies@communities.gsi.gov.uk

Meanwhile, please take the time afterwards to fill in part two of the Hansard Society’s evaluation survey, which will help us to evaluate this online consultation.

Closing Date

Posted by hannah lynch on 27/11/2006 - 16:22

Thank you to all of you that have posted on this site. We have really found this to be a useful exercise, and we hope to use a forum of this kind again in the future.

However, we are now nearly ready to consult officially on the site design guidance, and we have to close the forum in the light of this. This forum will therefore close for new comments on Friday 8 December. If you have any closing remarks, please get them in before then.

Please take the time afterwards to fill in part two of the Hansard Society’s evaluation survey.

Hannah Lynch
Policy Advisor
Gypsy and Traveller Unit

Response to Simon

Posted by hannah lynch on 08/11/2006 - 09:59

I'm happy to see that people are finding the forum a useful way of communicating with us. I just want to make it absolutely clear that I am publishing posts on the forum based purely on their content and not based on who has posted them. Although Hansard is monitoring the responses to the registration questions - including ethnic background - I do not have access to this information, and it has no influence on my decisions as a moderator.

I hope that this forum is being used by people from a variety of backgrounds - Gypsies and Travellers, professionals and laypeople. However I do understand that not all site dwellers will be able to get online easily. So, to those members of the Travelling community who can get to this site, please get in touch with other members of your community and relay their views on to us.

We are finding this forum very interesting, and we have therefore decided to extend its life for another few weeks. I had originally thought to end the discussion at the end of October, but we've decided to keep going for a bit longer. So there's still time for you to gather opinions from your communities and get them over to us.

Having read all the

Posted by DAWN TAYLOR on 07/11/2006 - 16:32

Having read all the comments, a lot has already been said that i agree with. In a previous job I project managed the refurbishment of a permanent site and searched everywhere for information and guidence and found very little help out there, (as well as consulting with the Travellers on the site). I think it is a great idea to have some agreed standards on design across the country - hopefully soon.

Responce to Christopher Bailey

Posted by simon ruston on 06/11/2006 - 19:27

I am a new traveller living in the Shropshire area on a disputed site. I really feel that Mr Bailey has shown one side of the whole definition argument. Firstly, the legal definition of a Gypsy or Traveller in Planning Law now takes into account people who may have stopped travelling for a time in order to let their kids take advantage of education or because of ill health. Secondly, this has been upheld in the courts (eg the Berry case). Thirdly, I find it really fustrating that Mr Bailey sees our way of life as cheap rural housing. For me personally, I could not live in conventional housing. This is our culture to live this way, there is more to it than just travelling and I find it very fustrating when the settled community fails to understand this. I would like to ask whether some more opinions from Travellers could be shown on this forum, in order to provide a balence from proffesionals and settled people living near sites.

In terms of site design, I find that council run sites tend to resemble concentration camps. I also find the idea of height barriers disgusting. A site nearby to us at the moment had access issues for a fire engine a while back. The Chief Inspector then informed residents that the barrier was for their own safety! If height barriers were put on the settled commnity, there would be national outrage.

Gypsy & Travellers sites - a North West Perspective

Posted by mgallagher on 02/11/2006 - 08:32

From a North-West regional perspective there are a number of issues arising from on-going research being conducted across the North West by the Salford Housing & Urban Studies Unit. Many of these issues link into more than one of the issues of concern to the DCLG. Emerging issues include:

• The need for pitches to have site names which do not easily indicate that the individual is a Gypsy or a Traveller. Some people have reported feeling discriminated against by potential employers and people in the local community when it is clear where someone lives;

• The preference and aspiration for the majority of Gypsies and Travellers spoken to so far are for private authorised sites, followed by local authority sites;

• The size of sites that seem to be preferred are relatively small accounting for no more than around 15-20 pitches;

• Privacy and boundary definition is appearing as a major issue. Many people want secure boundaries to stop people wandering on to their pitch and to keep dogs out;

Gypsies & Travellers Site Standards and Design

Posted by gill warner on 31/10/2006 - 11:19

I absolutely relate to the comments made by Barnsley and won't repeat them. I would like to make a point about specifically ensuring that new sites/developments for gypsies and travellers or refurbishment of existing sites takes account of physical and sensory impairment issues using the social model of disability. So that new or refurbished sites/developments design out barriers for people with physical and sensory impairment wherever possible.

Gypsies & Travellers Site Standards and Design

Posted by Angela Freeman on 24/10/2006 - 15:21

Following a very brief discussion with colleagues in Barnsley, we have a series of points to make in relation the the questions posed. Please note that these are not meant to be comprehensive in any way.
What makes a really good site to live on? What are the most important facilities needed to make a site truly effective and how should they be designed?
• Effective and efficient management that ensures a firm but fair approach to all aspects of the site management.
• Management must ensure that tenancy agreements are adhered to for the benefit of all living on the site.
• Management should be seen as a friendly face that understands and appreciates the Gypsy and Traveller culture, that visits the site on a regular or frequent basis and that can be easily contacted.
• Good accommodation – plots that are kept clean and tidy and are of a good size relative to the size of the family unit allocated to the plot.
• A reasonable mix of large and small family units and a site that accommodate and take account of the needs of extended families.
• Good facilities for disabled and frail elderly people.
• The site should have reasonable access to local services and amenities such as doctor, dentist, shops, health visitors, and clinics
• Shared community area/open space and/or safe play area for young children
• Amenity blocks that are built to current energy efficiency standards with adequate space in amenity blocks for full kitchen and bathroom facilities.
• Kitchen to include space for washer, dryer, fridge, freezer, cooker, storage for utensils and food. Adequate work and food preparation space.
• Adequate mix of amenity blocks to include facilities for disabled and frail elderly.
• Prepay electric meters to national standards and design with prepay cards available from local outlets
• Walls dividing plots instead of fencing
• Use of street names on site and allocation of a full address for each plot e.g. 28 Dearne Valley View, Smithies Lane rather than plot 28 Gypsy & Traveller Caravan Site, off Smithies Lane

Gypsies and travellers sites

Posted by Christopher Bailey on 24/10/2006 - 08:03

Reading through the forum it seems that much of the debate is related to the important details of providing permanent sites for travelling communities.

Permanent sites for travellers?

Surely this is an oxymoron?

Once a family moves onto a permanent site they are not travelling. If they are not travelling they are settled. If they are settled they need the same facilities as any household, access to education, health, work and food shopping, (these are all spelt out in "Making the Connections"). In other words a permanent site for travellers is in reality nothing more than a housing estate.

With regards to site details one needs to take account of all the same details that should be at the forefront of any design for new housing. There may be lessons here about designing out crime. The inclusion of communal play areas that are overlooked and supervisable appears to help develop social cohesion within the travelling community. However, control of access via the entrance to the community that creates a sense of entering a definite place that is separate to the outside world may develop internal social cohesion but may build exclusion from the rest of the community with distrust and suspicion.

Helen's comment

Posted by hannah lynch on 23/10/2006 - 11:19

Helen makes an excellent point about the accessibilty of the consultation, and I feel that this needs following up. We are very aware that members of the Travelling community may well have problems with literacy and may also not have easy access to the internet. We are not planning on replacing any of the other forms of consultation that we use with this forum - this is an initial way of getting views from people, and we are aware that it does have limitations. We hope that those members of the Travelling community who can access this site will collect views from their communities and then pass them on to us via the forum.

The ethnic monitoring has been updated, as those of you that registered since Helen posted her comment will have noticed. Unfortunately, my post has been somewhat delayed, but we have dealt with this issue!

Right - on with the discussion! We still want to see your views, so keep them coming in.

Hannah

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